Saturday, September 10, 2016

Truth bombs from Langes MMA homies

A recent Facebook post I shared brought about an interesting discussion with some of my training buds at Langes MMA, brown and black belts.

The original post was this one:

Survive, Defend, Attack by Cane Prevost

Read it, it's pretty good, especially for us senior citizens.



My shared post generated the following (edited) comments from my training buds at Langes MMA. Guys that Stuart Morton, the artist formerly known as Gut Rupture, calls my "homies". Stu encouraged me to write some more blog posts myself. Good man.

Anyway, read on to be illuminated:

Dave Badlan No i reckon we can better this article. It talks about my old principles of rolling. I always went defensive (as you well knowStuart Morton). However, i now believe you can attack as an older person but more defensively.

Andrew Nerlich
 Give it your best shot Dave Badlan

Dave Badlan Challenge accepted!

Dave Badlan alright here we go....The concept of BJJ is that it is aimed to suit the "weaker" individual - which is what attracted me to the art. However, the article in question talks about defending and then attacking. For many years i held this belief and spent alot of energy defending against the stronger/heavier/better opponent and waited for the opportunity to attack, butfor me it failed for a couple of reasons.

Dave Badlan Firstly when you are defending, you are continually thinking about your limbs and all the ways you can can be subbed and as much as you stay in defence you, ultimately are to a degree vulnerable. Primarlily if (when you are an older grappler) the stronger heavier opponent can just wear you aout through attrition alone. You can ultimately think about attacking but you have to use alot of energy to get there. Sadly as well in the youtube, UFC age and with the availability of information in the mix most "newbies" have researched and have an idea what they're in for before they arrive, which gives then a slighter advantage (to a degree). Add the idea of age into teh equation and as the older grappler you are on the back foot. At this point it sounds like i'm making excuses but hang on...I recently attended a seminar with Robson Moura and he dropped this great concept on me at the end of his seminar... "Scramble". He stated that the man in the street could take him out if he scrambled hard enough, the differnce was jiu jitsu. Robson's idea came from something Rickson Gracie had said years earlier about movement. Robson himslef didn't pick up on it until later in his career but ultimatley acknowledged that movement was crucial in jiu jitsu no matter what/who. His reasoning was that everyone can scramble to survive, scramble with jiu jitsu you thrive. Personally for me this has been a "light bulb" moment in my jiu jitsu journey and as i "scramble" or "move with purpose" i create more opporunities for attack from defence. The article is right in some aspects , but it misses the psychological concept which also prevails and is epitomised by Keith Owen's tapping 10,000 times priciple. The older grappler is oft the underdog but jiu jitsu is for life as the saying goes and if you are prepared for that then you can make it your own. I discussed this with my wife, who knows a thing about high level sport competion and the psychology of it, as she's aged eher mentality and focus has not changed from when she was a younger, stronger athlete, be technical and have fun.

Dave Badlan If i ultimaltely get tapped by a 20 something year old that's cool, if i get tapped by a 60 year old that's cool too, it's the learning expereince that should ultimately be the pardigm shift. Knowing when to move or how to move and at waht pace, defensively, aggressively and with a destination in mind is crucial, but all the time moving with purpose and gaining knowledge from each and every roll. Time on the mat, drilling and just being there is what counts, jiu jitsu is an individual journey for each and every person that takes up the art. Uktimately there is no bad jiu jitsu or way to advance. In the words of a sporting company you just "do it" and realistically only a jiu jitsu practitioner "knows the feeling" and to use an old surfinf adage "the best one on the mat is the one having the most fun"

Alex Newcomb I believe in the 'continual improvement' model. You should always be upgrading your position...even when you are in dominant positions you should be looking to apply more pressure inch by inch towards the sub. If you can be upgrading with economy of energy expenditure then all the better. If you want more of a challenge start in the worst position....then work the upgrade! If you're tired upgrade with better economy and efficiency. Train your body and mind to constantly progress.

Luca Altea Great posts guys, thanks for the efforts. Robson Moura is a poster boy for us small guys! The scramble mentality is a good one to have, however in times when your cardio is not top notch it can be a little bit of a liability for you as well in my opinion.

I've experienced that many times in my bjj journey; my game is all about moving fast but sometimes if I start to gas out with a bigger and stronger opponent doubt enters my mind and I start being very passive and try to survive only which usually leads to a not so enjoyable roll for me 

When stuff flows well though it is great as it is usually a lot easier to find openings with a less experienced opponent if you force the fast scramble on him.

The biggest difference for me though is to have the mentality of always attacking as the great MG says. If your focus is thinking of attacking all the time, it really changes the dynamics of the roll as people need to deal with your attacks rather than have the time to think about passing etc. This creates a lot of openings where you can start to work your sequences. I've been struggling with this a lot as my game and personality is naturally relaxed and a little passive but I've been trying to change this.

It is also important to be able to be comfortable and relaxed in bad positions though, but this is always being a forced priority for me due to my size  On that, my focus it's been to prevent at any cost the really bad positions like side control (scramble scramble scramble again) rather than focus too much on the costly escapes once you are there.


Andrew Nerlich Interesting stuff all. Going to get my mats out this arvo and work on earning the nickname of the Midnight Scrambler. Comes back to effective efficient movement, slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Luca Altea, I'm a bit too relaxed and passive myself.

Alex Newcomb Good stuff Andrew.
I think this one sums up the journey for me:
'simplicity is the ultimate sophistication' -Leonardo Da Vinci
The key is identifying the patterns of simplicity.


Miklos Boethy: Hi guys I have to agree great post! And convocation. I will put my 2 bobs worth in. I agree with all of it. The article Survive, Defend, Attack by Cane Prevost was a good read and I agree with it. When I read it I recognised tactics that I use often and that is waiting or patience. This I use with most opponents I also attack in this time but with annoying stuff that I don’t have to change my position much such as wrist locks. Often I use my structure while I am in turtle and wait for them to react (not just turtle) when their body weight and position shifts then is the time to scramble attack and advance position with the understanding that I may have to retreat to my defensive position again. Therefore I suggest that the key is timing. With the right timing all the other things will work and this comes from time on the matts which translates to experience which ultimately not luck.

 Andrew Nerlich Some thoughts related to this from the Dave Camarillo seminar I attended last weekend. Dave Badlan this is what I was talking about when I mentioned philosophy:

Andrew Nerlich Dave talked about a spectrum of control, from a perfect rock solid pin at one end, to a scramble to the other. He said that if he feels he is losing a pin and it is heading toward a scramble, he wants to be the one to initiate the scramble, thus staying ahead of the game. We should avoid having any emotional attachment to a position, lest we try too hard to "hang on to a sinking ship" and lose. We just move on to the next position and let the failed one go.

"Avoiding emotional attachment to a position" sounds very Zen and a bit spacey, but any BJJ guy will know exactly what is meant.

We discussed this specifically with regard to the elbow push escape. Dave said that to resist the elbow push actually gives the guy the point to push off which makes the escape work. Instead Dave will go with the elbow push and just move around to another control.


Midnight Scrambler (or close enough):






3 comments:

scorpio rouge said...

I totally love that you record this for later! Some very cool gems in those comments!

Miklos Beothy said...

Hi guys I have to agree great post! And convocation. I will put my 2 bobs worth in.
I agree with all of it. The article Survive, Defend, Attack by Cane Prevost was a good read and I agree with it. When I read it I recognised tactics that I use often and that is waiting or patience. This I use with most opponents I also attack in this time but with annoying stuff that I don’t have to change my position much such as wrist locks. Often I use my structure while I am in turtle and wait for them to react (not just turtle) when their body weight and position shifts then is the time to scramble attack and advance position with the understanding that I may have to retreat to my defensive position again. Therefore I suggest that the key is timing. With the right timing all the other things will work and this comes from time on the matts which translates to experience which ultimately not luck.

Andrew Nerlich said...

Miklos - I updated the article to include your comment. Much more than two bob's worth!